Photography: Chelone Wolf & MSJ Photos

We’re sorry to break the news. You probably already knew. But just in case you didn’t… Cleveland Watkiss is cooler than you.

Aged 62, he has the energy, passion and inspired vibe of someone under half his age. Yet he’s schooled, versed and hyper successful in more musical disciplines than most people could achieve if they were four times his age.

From working with the likes of Stevie Wonder to Courtney Pine to Bob Dylan to Bjork to the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Watkiss has recorded and performed with some of the greatest across the entire contemporary music spectrum.

His roots and readings range from baroque to opera and jazz runs through his veins; he has an acapella performance concept which is based solely around his voice (Vocal Suite); he was recently awarded a prestigious Ivor Novello Award for his contributions to music, and was awarded an MBE by the Queen a few year prior, and he’s also voice professor at Trinity Conservatoire, London.

That’s before we even start to consider his role in jungle drum & bass as one of the premiership musical MCs who’s helped sculpt the craft since his seminal role at Blue Note. To put it simply; no one in this culture has flexed quite as freely across the musical universe as this man.

In light of his new album The Great Jamaican Songbook, released last week, he spoke to UKF in this exclusive, extensive and extraordinary interview.

When I look at your career. All the many disciplines and styles you’re involved in, I see a very particular thread. One thing that brings it all together – and it’s what I love about your MC style – is improvisation…

You’re spot on. SP said the exact the same thing to me recently. Over all these years that’s what I’ve done. It comes from my background. I studied jazz and improvisation for many years. Decades.

When I began to host at Blue Note everything was new. Especially in that environment – you had DJs cutting plates to play for the very first time. We’re all hearing them for the first time, so it’s like, ‘Okay how do I not get in the way? How do I fit in?’

I’m not a fast MC. I love that style but I come from soundsystem culture where everything is on the halftime. So I’m thinking about improvisation, melody, lyrics and especially space. Space is part of the music. We need to let things breathe. It adds to the dynamics and that’s what I loved about hosting Metalheadz. Hearing these now seminal tunes being played for the first time through that incredible soundsystem. I was in heaven.

For me it boils down to my love for the moment. I don’t write things down. I thrive on the moment. It’s why I’m still actively doing so many things. I love all the different plates I spin because they keep me creative and excited about music. Whether it’s a new tune, an album, an event. I’m still a fanboy. I love seeing DJs play, bands play, I love dancing and that whole interaction. It fuels me.

It all feeds into each other doesn’t it? I was watching one of your Vocal Suite performances on video and elements of that reminded me of some of my favourite moments of yours on sets. It all echoes…

Absolutely. There are still elements of my soundsystem style that filter through into what I’m doing today. We develop a vocabulary and draw on it depending on how we’re feeling in the moment. That’s what I love about spontaneity. Look at Fabio & Grooverider. They don’t plan their sets. That’s jazz. That’s the shit.

You learn your craft, you master it, then it’s about doing your craft. I’ve done the studying, now it’s about how I want to create music in the moment. Whoever is there and experiences that moment, it will never happen to them again. It’s unique. We can’t recreate Blue Note. We’ve done that, it’s happened.

I think we can get too side-tracked with that sometimes. The quest for authenticity can get muddled with an obsession with the past. The best things happen naturally and are not over-thought or contrived. 

I agree. But, having said that, my new album is celebrating the past. These are songs that I grew up with and they inspired me to become a singer. Dennis Brown, Gregory Isaacs, Delroy Wilson, Burning Spear. These great singers who came out of Jamaica in the 70s fired me up!

And, in contrary to what we’re saying, I did want to capture the same ethos and approach the musicians had when they originally recorded them. They would go and record it live in one take. All these classics are one-take vocals. No over-dubs. I was ready with the band, we recorded all 10 tracks in two days.

Wow, just bang bang bang…

Just bang bang bang. Ask Lowqui. He was there, documenting it. It blew his mind. I said, ‘This is how they did it back in the day.’ You had one shot, if you mess it up then goodbye. So we did that.

We had the perfect studio. Zak Starkey’s studio. Ringo Starr’s son. As well as playing drums with The Who, he is a huge reggae fan and produces a lot of Jamaican music. Walking in to his studio, it was like Lee Perry’s Black Ark, set up perfectly to capture the authentic valve sound. The environment and vibe was perfect.

So yes, we live in the moment. But I always say it’s important to have one foot in the past and one foot in the future, but be totally present. To know what came before helps us push things and innovate.

That’s the essence of jungle too. The roots music with the samples and foundations, but the futurism of production and that notion of living in the moment.

Totally. It’s fascinating how all those elements came together. You had kids who had parents who had the records. You had kids who were tech heads and loved the studio. They found each other and created this incredible music. When I first heard jungle it was actually booming from my daughter’s bedroom.

Oh wow. I wondered how jungle came into your life – you were a little older than a lot of the original pioneers making it. You’d already been involved in so many different things before. That’s beautiful.

Yeah I was downstairs one day and I heard this bassline. I came up and was like, ‘Wow, what’s this?’ It was Baby D, I Need Your Loving. I knew the sample, then I heard that bassline and those beats!

From that moment, I started to notice it everywhere as I walked through Hackney. I’d hear it from cars, shops, bars. This was 91, 92. It was everywhere. Then I went to my first rave. Roller Express in Tottenham. I was curious. What is this all about? I stood there, really observant and saw these MCs on stage. Navigator, Moose, GQ, Five-O. I didn’t know who they were at the time but I instantly knew it was where soundsystem culture had got to.

It was love at first sight. This was a reboot from where I’d come from I started soaking it up , I was a regular at Blackmarket buying tunes, meeting the guys, this was all pre-Blue Note, of course.

Then fast forward to around 94, I was doing a jam session and this girl who used to host it, Lady Caroline, who went on to work with Moving Shadow, said, ‘There’s this new club happening at the Mars Bar, it’s called Speed and I want you to meet this guy called Goldie. He’s looking for a singer.’

I didn’t know who Goldie was at the time. But I thought, ‘Okay sure’. I went to the first night. I saw Bukem for the first time, I met Fabio and Goldie. He said, ‘We’re in the studio tomorrow, come by and see what’s happening.’ So I went there and we did the song Adrift. The jungle ballad.

It’s funny. He played me the track, I was catching the vibe, he had the structure and the vision of what he wanted and I was standing there waiting for the beats to come in but it was just this beautiful arrangement of pads and melodies so I did my thing.

Obviously Timeless came out, we toured it and, during that tour, he said he was starting a Metalheadz night. I remember the first night. Dego was there. Bukem was there. It was such a mixture of incredible music. I said to Goldie, ‘I got my mic in my car, shall I go and get it?’ He said, ‘Nah nah’. Half hour later he was like, ‘Go get your mic.’ I plugged the mic in and it stayed plugged in for three years or so.

As the night developed, and the label found its direction, he hit this beautiful alchemy… Kemistry & Storm, Doc Scott, Jumpin Jack Frost, Peshay, Loxy & Ink, Fabio & Grooverider. It found its sound and its momentum after a few sessions. And I found my own way of hosting it.

Goosebumps. It seems like such stark futurism. That particular strain of drum & bass was so uncompromising. The vanguard. You were the human connection guiding people through these amazing sounds. That soul and balance.

Everyone played their part. It was the epicentre of this music. The people who I saw there! I’d stop MCing for a second and think, ‘How did this person get in here? How do they even know?’ Bank managers, models, politicians…

I often hear about popstars passing through, but MPs?

People from all walks of life. We called it church. It was a Sunday service and you would hear the best music you’d hear in your life. And all through that soundsystem. The Eskimo. That was very important. Sounds weren’t always the best quality in venues around that time. Very harsh frequencies.

When you come from a world of valve amplification, those scientists who made their own sounds – Fatman Sound, Shaka Sound, all these greats. When I went to Phoebes for Fatman back in the day, his sound was so warm and organic you could put your head inside the 18” bassbin and keep it there. It’s like being back in the womb. Blue Note had that.

It was a special time. All the elements came together. Goldie being the alchemist he is, he brought it all together and that’s where we started building the mansion that we’re still building to this day. 25 years later, it’s still being built on today and we’re still flying high.

Absolutely. How about other musical aspects of your life at that time? I know you collaborated with Ballistic Brothers and you did that Kamikaze tune on Talking Loud around this time. Drum & bass was one of the canvases you were painting on, but you were so active in so many other things.

I’ve always loved the idea of music as a genre unto itself. I love what Duke Ellington said… There are only two kinds of music – there’s good music, and the other. Music for me is a broad canvas and I’ve been fortunate enough to work with and collaborate with so many amazing musicians around the world. Whether it’s classical music with Nigel Kennedy or jazz with Coutney Pine or…

Dude, you’ve worked with Stevie Wonder!

Do you want to hear that story? Have we got time?

All the time…

Okay… It’s around 85 or 86. I get the call. It’s Paul Johnson the classical soul singer who I did a lot of session work with. He said, ‘Are you free?’ Sure. ‘Okay, there’s a session with Stevie Wonder at Sound West studios, you need to be there at blah blah blah o clock.’ Clunk. He hung up. My mind was blown.

I rang him straight back. ‘Woah woah woah…’ But he confirmed everything again and hung up. Now I was obsessed with Stevie. As a kid I walked around the house with dark glasses on, trying to imagine what it was like to be blind, closing my eyes and feeling my way around. He was everything to me. I knew all his songs.

I get to the studio and there’s a bunch of us there, he’s put together a choir. One of his entourage comes down and tells us, ‘Stevie will be down in a second, he’s still writing the song.’ Like wow. I thought, ‘This is not happening.’ He came down, introduced himself, taught us the parts and it turned out to be one of the songs that harked back to what a lot of us consider his golden era.

Early 70s Stevie – Music Of My Mind, Talking Book and all those classics. The song was Free and it had all the same energy and soul of that period. We sang it, we did our parts and recorded it and he said, ‘Is it okay if I play some songs?’ Do you like this one? How about this one? I thought I’d died and gone to heaven.

Wow!!

I thought, ‘The only way I’m going to know this actually happened is if I wait for this record to come out.’ I queued outside Virgin Records on release day and was the first in the store. I bought the record, tore the wrapper off and saw my name there in the credits. It was like take me now Jesus! Take me!

It was the biggest thrill of a lifetime to work with him and be in his presence. I’ve covered it since with my trio. So that was a mind-blowing experience. And I always think…

Dreams do come true. If you’re a person who sticks with your vision – which is hard and has many ups and downs – then the best things happen. That’s what I’ve been doing for the longest of times. I’m doing what I’ve been called to do and I will continue forever come rain or shine.

That’s so inspiring. You mentioned something that resonated with me… About how you learn your craft, you do your studying, then you live it and breathe it and practice it almost without thinking. Every day. I can relate to that with what I do. At what point though, for you, did you feel like you’d done your learning and honing and you were just living it?

It’s the moment where you’re not bothered what people say. You’re not phased by this new thing or that new thing. You’re not in competition with other people. It’s that place where you’re at peace with yourself and you accept your talents and gifts. That’s the moment. That’s the mastery. There can never be another Dave Columbo Jenkins. There can never be another Cleveland Watkiss. We are all unique. So when you come to terms with yourself and your art, that’s the mastery.

Realising you have nothing to prove. This seems to come with age and consistency, doesn’t it? At what point did this happen for you?

It was when I needed to stop everything from a musical point of view because I felt I couldn’t hear my voice anymore. I wanted to do something that really focused on me hearing myself breathe when I sing. So I did solo voice concerts. Inspired by Bobby McFerrin’s live perfomrances, I wanted to explore my voice.

I didn’t want to hear any other sound. No beats, no synths. Nothing. I wanted to hear my own voice and get back in tune with that. So I bought a looper and just listened to myself, exploring my range… I have a really expressive range from very very low to very very high.

That’s rare isn’t it?

It’s taught and studied. Something I’ve worked on for a long time. I studied the physiology of the voice in my teens with an opera singer named Arnold Rose. He wrote a book called The Singer & The Voice which goes into deep physiology and anatomy of the voice. I didn’t understand a word of it at first but I stuck with it, read it and read it until I got sick of it and then I read it some more.

Eventually it clicked and I started to understand about the voice and how sound is produced and how to look after your voice. Shouts to MCs reading this – you have one voice, when you damage your vocal chords you can’t go to the shop and get a new set. After two hours, you need to rest your voice. If you don’t, you damage it. I’m a stickler for this and I want to be doing this for a lot longer. I’ve got more to do.

Totally! I want to go back to that era of you doing voice performances…

Yes. So, at that time, I was listening to a lot of Bach and choral music. I wanted to be able to hear all the different movements. If I sing a line or improvise one, I want to know the harmonic possibilities that go with that. Listening to Bach and choral music helps you understand the creative capabilities. All these different lines you can layer and cross.

Baroque helped me understand the lower harmonies and upper frequencies. The beats and breaks were already there in my head. So taking that time out to work on myself and hear myself again it allowed me to work in another space where I could be in the moment and improvise.

It’s interesting. Our brains are tape recorders. It’s just a case of whether we can recall these moments again. And working at these events. A Metalheadz night, a set with Calibre, a set with Fabio & Grooverider… My whole thing is about what’s happening right now. What are they going to play? How are the crowd going to react? What am I going to do? It’s all in the moment and that’s all that we have. Yesterday is gone, tomorrow hasn’t happened. Now is the only thing we have. That’s the function for me – this is happening right at this moment and I live for that.

I love that. We’ve come full circle. But I want to end with another thread I’ve noticed that runs in everything you do. You’re a teacher…

Teaching is very important to me. Sharing information. You’re right, it’s something I’ve always done. Working with younger people from the early 80s, doing workshops and passing on the information I was learning. This has now continued to the point where I’m a voice professor at Trinity Laban Music & Dance Conservatoire. Teaching and giving back has always… It keeps you oiled and fuelled.

Recently I was teaching. We were learning a piece of music by Thelonious Monk. The easiest thing for me to do would be to give them the sheet music but the best way for them to properly lean it is to listen to the record over and over, work it out and learn it by ear.

I could see it was a struggle for some students, but we stayed with it. We figured out the chords, we figured out the structure and form. We stayed with it and internalised it. Why? Because it’s much harder to forget that way. The music has to live inside of you and that’s how you become the music. Being able to read it is a great asset. But only when the music is inside of you is when you’re truly living it and practicing it.

Deep learning. Beyond learning.

That’s right. And don’t get me wrong – reading music is important but internalising is very important to me. Especially at conservatoires where reading is such a focus and internalising is often forgotten. Music was never created that way. Jazz and improvision is through listening, absorbing and living it. So being able to pass that on is very inspiring. I love seeing where all these new talents are going to take the music next.

Yeah! You know, I think you might one of the only professors in D&B.

No no… Fabio & Grooverider are professors at what they do!

Yes!! So one final thing… D&B has often been compared to jazz or referred to as modern day jazz. I’ve always felt that’s a bit lazy to make those parallels. But in a quote in an old interview of yours you explain what you love about jazz; the Black music roots and the European classical elements. Reading that made me think that perhaps D&B does respect the spirit of jazz. Let’s sign out with your thoughts on that…

Jazz is such a huge word. For a lot of people that word means so many things. But if you immerse yourself in the development of where the likes of Charlie Parker, Louis Armstrong. Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan… If you understand the histories of certain eras, even going back to the 20s and Duke Ellington, you listen to the development of it through the decades you won’t be confused at what jazz is.

History is so important – it gives you a compass and helps you navigate where it came from. And when you consider that lineage, yes I would say that hip-hop is jazz, soundsystem culture is jazz – Lee Perry, King Tubby, they were improvisors. Bob Marley was listening to jazz music. It’s all linked.

The spirit stays the same                                                 

Yes. And it’s the spirit of the moment. You can write something, you can rehearse it, you can plan it. But are you ready to perform it? Are you ready to live in that moment? In the words of GQ, anything can happen… You’ve got to be ready.

Cleveland Watkiss – The Great Jamaican Songbook is out now

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